The XCritic Interview: Dee Williams Pt. 2

July 15, 2020
CYBER5

I do not know if every fan feels like this, but something tells me that they do indeed. There are very few starlets left where I can honestly say that, “I am a fan of that woman right there.” No, it is not that I aim disrespect at a new generation, or that the modern industry is not what it used to be. Far from it. I think when anyone starts working within an industry that has been a love, a hobby, an escape, a place of motivation and discovery before it became a way to support yourself, they feel that the people they work with, write about, shoot and create will become more of a colleague or respected professional than stay in the cross-hairs as a fans idol. Being a fan is something that is a bias to me being an awards' voter for a few companies and I try to stay as true as I can to that professionalism. Call me a dreamer, call me a fool, but I love being able to say that my judgement, my writing that I bring the fans and reward the performers with, is left unbiased due to the fact that I do not mix business and pleasure anymore. At least in the traditional way. This brings us to part two of our interview with Dee Williams, or “Darlin’” as she was once known. Dee is a woman who I was a fan of long before I even put a pen to paper and made some money off the art that came out it. Dee has long been a woman who changed the world of fetish in so many ways, and she continues to do that within the modern industry. Her role in Women Seeking Women 172 was reviewed by our own James Sharp and is a great example how she has brought over her passion to the mainstream side of porn. In the last part of the interview, we talked about her industry love, now, we talk about the love of girlfriends and how she found another love of her life, as this was something I always wanted to know about Dee Williams the performer when I was strictly just a fan. I was always curious to know, how do you meet and marry one of the most unique women in the world? How does this amazing man proceed, how did it all come together? Now, being an industry writer, I have the opportunity to find out such things and I hope each and every one of you are looking forward to finding out these little tid-bits as I was. In my mind, a woman like Dee, she is one of the last true starlets of the adult film world. A woman who you can tell from one scene she stars in that she is the real deal and always has been.

Don Juan: I can see you being the one in the family who was meant to be an engineer in life.(Read the whole backstory in part one of our interview. Dee and I pretty much begin our talk on philosophy, and the little things that make us tick. As we worked our way up to this discussion about our families, our beliefs that we hold dear to our personas I learned Dee is one of the most intelligent women I have ever had the pleasure of interviewing and this is where we began to find out that the woman we see on screen is not that much different from the woman who loves to ride in fast cars, get tied up with leather, and bakes a cake for all of us after. Not only with a smile on her face but a joy that is very rarely seen in the world today, or maybe I should say, hardly ever reported upon. That is until today.)

Dee Williams: It is very interesting to me with the job that I have, doing what I do. I very regularly end up where my co-workers, how can I put this, the talent who are all typically twenty years younger than I am, a whole generation younger. One of the things that I struggle to really communicate is how different it was growing up in the seventies and eighties to them. Even growing up in the nineties was a completely different experience from what they have faced in terms of the freedom that you had to break gender norms and do what interested you without that sort of judgement.

Don Juan: You know, that is why I really enjoyed getting to ask you those questions about fetish because I always love to tell anyone who will listen, I was lucky enough, or blessed to grow up with an older brother who was gay. Like you said, it was a different time back then compared to how things are now. This is the early nineties we are talking about, and we were Catholic and came from a lineage of teachers in the family, so he wanted to be a teacher and the first shot he had at following in my mom’s footsteps was as a Sunday school teacher. Being a gay man teaching at Sunday school, that was not the best combination. Especially if you were trying to make friends and be accepted by the males. I was……

Dee Williams: Like how was your brother and I ask this being that I have a lot of lesbians in my family, and they range anywhere from so lipstick you would be shocked, to “wow, no, you are obviously gay and there is no hiding it!”

Don Juan: YES!

Dee Williams: So I am wondering where on that spectrum does your brother fall in?

Don Juan: Oh, we are talking full fledged flamer.

(I love this woman, can I say that again, I love Dee Williams. What I have always found wondrous about my brother and most other gay men, is that they do not like to make a big deal about who they are. Which is very hard for a straight person like me to not shout out to the rooftops for the person in their family they love unconditionally. What Dee and I are speaking about goes beyond stories of life. In years past, I think the gay and lesbian community had to create what I would call “a world onto itself” where they could escape the torment of the outside world and this goes beyond bars, clubs or other places of stereotype you may think even though those places existed. My brother was a flamer. Meaning that he was engaged to his feminine side in a very big way. He loved to be beautiful, and he was in every phase of the game of life. He is a man who has passion and control. A “flaming” homosexual is my favorite because they are people who take massive risks when in the company of people who accept them. For Dee to ask me that question meant a lot because this is one of the key wonders of sexuality. Getting to know how someone relates to the world they lived in. It speaks of the confidence and honesty you gain from giving into who you are no matter if you are gay or straight.)

Dee Williams: Oh hey!

Don Juan: Yes, now you are going to love this. Me being an inquisitive man, I learned very early in my life that this is something that we are born as. This is sexuality. I would routinely say when I listening the bullshit that is that age old load of crap; “pray the gay away.” Mind you, this is when we would go to Sunday school and I would see the nuns and I would say, “my brother, you think that if he had an freaking choice that he would choose to get his ass kicked every single day? Don't you think he has been praying enough?” I do not know anyone on earth who would choose that in life and they were wrong to judge him. Many were and I learned a very valuable lesson in life that day, all those days.

Dee Williams: Exactly!

Don Juan: Growing up where we did, it was very difficult for my brother. All of our aunts, uncles, everyone always had their opinion about him and it was not a good one, and they always let our parents know how they felt. They would not tell you when they were cheating on their taxes but they told you what they thought of homosexual men and women. My family is the same as yours, except we have a lot of gay men in our family. I have always said that I was very blessed to know that side of my older brother. The bonus of such wonders in one's life, is that when you get to understand your own sexuality, like I did, and your brother was a flamer in the nineties, I got to be the one who met all the older girls that were my brother's only friends throughout his life. It was always the females of our species that treated my brother like a human being. Now, to lighten the mood, women, girls, that is where I was at my whole life and with him, I got to be a little ahead of the curve since my brother was five years ahead of me. I got to meet and shack up with all the older school girls when I was still a youngin'. They all thought I was the most adorable little brother and I was.

Dee Williams: That is brilliant! That will advance your education for sure.

Don Juan: Once again Dee, you being the intellectual person that you are, I know you can relate to such conversations. I think that gay men are some of the only "in tune," honest males on the planet, and I don’t mean that in ways most think. I mean when you want to see the core of what “man” is, you simply look at a gay man. That is the honest, to goodness truth. At least that is how I see it. No matter what we call this type of characteristic that exists in all of us. A feminine side, or a sensitive side. It is something that exists in all of us and needs to be paid attention to more often in this world, especially with men.

Dee Williams: Once again, you see the yin to the yang,within the lesbian community with masculine traits. It is very freeing to be able to be in a community where OK, yes, we are all the same gender, but that does not mean that we all have the same outlook, interests and that sort of thing. It takes what you are interested in. What your dual masculine and feminine energies are and it separates that from sexuality in a way that is super helpful for the brain.

Don Juan: I love this, darlin’ you are walking into each question so beautifully. For me, I think that I have a more predominant feminine brain. I know that I have had that from the get-go. All the little things that make up a person. I have always shared that connection and common ground more with females than I do with with males, that has just been me my entire life. Getting to understand that is just like you said, freeing to the mind. I think most people do not get to know or enjoy that part about themselves ever in life. I don’t think men get the chance to learn such wonders until they are way, way older in life and that is tragic to me.

Dee Williams: I agree with you. I think that men in particular are kept away from their own conceptualizations as well as societies. Testosterone is one hell of a drug! So, you combine those three things and guys feel that they can only walk this one path, even if they are aware of the fifteen other ways that they could be walking, while interacting with the world. Discovering themselves and the interests that they could pick up. They feel constrained to do the “manly” thing like everybody else. Which, if that is your deal, do it! For a lot of us out there though, it is not.

Don Juan: Oh, yes indeed! You said it all right there and I will tell you this, being a man and how many male, testosterone driven cousins I have, mixed with my very in tune nature that consists my feminine side, I have run into some instances where cousins, the men who I call brother, they would walk up to me out of the blue and ask if I were gay. I never looked at that as an insult. My brother taught me so much about intelligence, about the male mind and a person’s thoughts and what they mean deep down. What I routinely find, when others learn of what I do for my “other” job, their first questions to me are, “I love a man sucking another man’s dick” or, “I like watching “trans” porn, does that mean that I am gay? Or something else?” I have a bit of a chuckle but I truly enjoy getting to tell this big burly man that, “no, that makes you normal brother.”

Dee Williams: Oh, yes. A man being attracted to feminine energy is so not a gay characteristic. Furthest thing from it! It really is the furthest thing that there is.

Don Juan: I really appreciate you sharing the things you experienced and what your story is. That intricate thinking of who you are with your sexuality is something that I have been so curious to learn about you. I see it from afar and I always have. It is such a beautiful thing within you and it inspires so many people.

Dee Williams: Awe, why thank you. I feel very, very lucky that my brain started out being so kinky. I think that I would have had a lot more difficulty processing things if what I had tackled first in life was my sexuality. For me, the word that I use for myself is "queer." I just do not fit into the “hetero” norm that people like to put other people within. It is not going to happen to me to be drawn to souls who are clearly tagged to be the most feminine of fems, or the most masculine of mascs. Exclusively, I love for my partners to have a lot of duality. I like for us to be able to play. Where I am in this whole thing, it is very nice to simply have partners who reflect that but the fact that I was built this way, a lot of people come to kink as a choice, and then there are some of us who just came from the factory hard-wired like that. Just like your brother who came hard-wired from the factory the way he was.

That is a different kind of way of approaching the whole concept from the traditional aspect. Then, if you have to spend a lot of time questioning, “what am I? Do I like this? Why do I like this?” You will miss those questions like, “could this be a part of my interest or not.?” It was just clearly so much a part of things that it was almost my exclusive interest. I am talking about the kinky stuff. The question did not become, “do I shove this down and fake it, or not?” There was no faking, there was no leaving behind my interest in BDSM. From my very first boyfriend, I absolutely had the strategy of, "well they got to be kinky." I can not start in the “normal” dating pool and just hope that I can find someone kinky. I need to be the person that starts in the kinky dating pool and hope that I find someone who is a normal human being above and beyond that.

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Don Juan: We are cut from the same cloth woman, I love it!

Dee Williams: I mean, it makes the search very different. In some ways, I think that it made my search a lot easier. I feel that trying to find somebody who matches your kinks, in the “normal” dating pool, it is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Well, the kinky dating pool, it is an odd pool of fish, I am not going to say that it is not. You kiss a lot of frogs. Let's just say I run into this a lot; “you're weird in a way that is not my kind of weird.”

Don Juan: I love that term and I mean this in the most compassionate way. It is finding that person who lets you feel comfortable showing your weirdness to them, that is special beyond anything else in life. When I met the love of my life we were speaking about off the record earlier, I met her at a convention, and we met the people behind our alter egos and that was such a breath of fresh air. She even told me later that she loved the romance, the kindness and this comes from a very, very stern woman. Then she told me, “being how romantic you are, you made me feel so safe and not strange when I asked if I could kick your ass and you did not look at me like a piece of shit.” I know that sounds vulgar as hell but that was her discovering romance and acceptance in other forms and seeing acceptance in a place she never thought possible. We taught that to each other in many ways. She taught me so much about where my mind could go. What I could do with ferocity, with intensity, with thought in other places. I was blown away in every way that a thinking mind can be blown away. We broke up but are still great friends and how this relates to what you are saying, I tell her, “finding someone after you who fits the bill and pushes me, it is so difficult. It is not as easy as the first time.”

Dee Williams: Well, it took you nearly fifteen years of dating before you even figured out that was something that you wanted to find. It took you fifteen years to accidentally stumble upon it not even knowing what you were looking for. Once you realize that is what you are seeking out, it does become a demoralizing search. Once you realize that you are looking for that one in a million, then discover you are not going to find that one in a million if I have only looked at thirty-five people. You have to look at a million people, that is a lot of people.

Don Juan: I will say this again woman, we are so cut from the same cloth. Speaking of the romance part and finding that "one in a million person." I love how you just keep walking into every single question. I think this is the perfect time to bring about some tales of romance. Your fella, my goodness, he is a treasure of this business.

Dee Williams: Isn’t he!

Don Juan: Oh me, oh my, he sure is. I got my intro into the intricacies of rope binding and rigging through my girl and her girlfriend. Her daddy dom was a master rigger here in Colorado. Here is what I have been dying to know from the great Dee Williams. I would love to know the story of how Dee met Matt. I would love to hear this tale of how exactly you both fell for each other. For me, what is coming to mind is something way fucking better than “When Harry Met Sally.”

Dee Williams: (She starts with that wonderful Texas laugh and…) It is a story that spans multiple years. I originally met him when I was twenty-five, and I was getting into the bondage world as a model. I took me a little bit of time from when I started doing sex-adjacent work. I started in LA and I had done some bondage performances and that sort of thing from the time that I was in college and when I moved to LA, I had been a teacher for about three years in Texas, then, when I moved to LA, I got a job doing the same there. The difficulty of getting a position in LA, is that all of Los Angeles is just one giant school district. Where in Dallas, there are about fifteen school districts between all the little suburbs that they have. I mean we are talking about every single suburb except maybe two have their own district. Now, in LA, everything is together, and we are talking everything from Beverly Hills to South Central, it is all one giant district. So, if you are going to get a job there, and there are jobs at great schools do not get me wrong. They are massively outnumbered by the jobs at difficult schools. You are going to have to do a couple of years in a difficult school and you must pay your dues as a teacher before you get your transfer to a good school. So, I took this job down in South Central. Yeah, it was rough.

Now, for stress relief I took a job at a dungeon. In LA at the time, the city had about four or five dungeons I believe. Can you believe now it is down to only one or two? Now, they had these dungeons where you could just walk-in and book a session with a mistress for one hour or so, but they also had professional switches and submissives on site. So, I took a job as a professional submissive on the weekends to go get spanked and get money for doing such things. It is stress relief, right? So that is really how I got my start in all of sex work in general.

So this is where I met someone who also produced spanking videos. This gal, she put me right into the thick of things and before you knew it I was in a spanking video and I met a few models while partaking. These models asked me if I wanted to do a “cat fight” video with them. I told these ladies, “I don't even know what a cat fight video is.” They said to me, “that is exactly the kind of woman I want to have a cat fight with.”

(The fact that Dee is sharing this, it is something very rare. I don’t often think enough that we get to hear not just the tales of fetish but where the root of the massive tree of knowledge that originates from within lovers of fetish. Dee speaks with this confident, intelligent and keen way of poking fun, and speaking truths about something that truly changes you from the inside out. A fight to most other people is something to not ask questions about. As Dee has shown through this whole interview, the fetish is as much about the inquiry and discovery in the mind as it is the action.)

I did not know if this was a person I wanted to “fight.” Then getting involved in that led to a conversation of, “are you willing to be tied up?” I loved getting tied up and that introduced me into the bondage side of things. At that time on the fetish and bondage side of things you did not have agents, that is not how a company would really book you for anything. It would basically consist of calling up a producer, a producer calling you and either way, both parties saying, “hey, I know we worked together six months ago, I got this gal who I think that you would really, really like, would you like her number?” That is pretty much how it went.

So, all of this is to say, I had gone to “BondCon” the bondage convention in Las Vegas and Matt had just gotten the job to rig for HogTied.com which had been around for maybe a year at that point, and he had been the man that grew it into the behemoth that it was. At that time he was kind of a new rigger, and I was simply just a person who went to this convention and I took a look around and it was the first time I had business cards and you should have seen me, (she stops to share that amazingly humble and beautiful laugh, as down to earth as can be.) I was going around and dropping off my business card at every single booth that was there. I ran into him for the first time by doing just that and Matt told me, he said, “you were just so kind to me and you were so bubbly.” We were talking with the company he was working for, and I was there with my girlfriend at the time, and we had initially got turned down for the job because we had tattoos. Now she had a big tattoo right in between her breasts, which is still a difficult place to have a tattoo in the industry and here I was with this giant thing on my back. I was clear on my front, we were all good there but I had this giant thing on my back. Tattoos were even more taboo back then. Back then a lot of the things that we were shooting were kind of “secretary” or the “damsel” sort of thing. So, I showed off my flexibility. I showed off how I could touch my elbows behind my back and that sort of thing. Despite all of this, we both got turned down.

So, it was about six weeks later, I got a call from what is now called, Kink.com and this call was to let me know that Matt wanted to book me for a test shoot. If you could have seen me, I was over the moon excited. Excuse my non-humbleness here, I know the intimacy that I can bring to a BDSM session it is good! I knew that I was a good model. I knew that I could perform for him, and I was super excited to have that be our first interaction and have him be wowed by who I am and what I could do. So, the week before, and he was married at this point mind you and his wife at the time was another bondage model. Both of them were also friends within the circle of LA bondage that I was running in. The week that I was supposed to shoot with Matt, there was a big pool party down in LA and Matt and his wife drove down from San Francisco to attend this pool party, which was completely not according to the plans that I had already had in my head of what our first, solid interaction would be like, and I am not great at parties, I get a little anxious. So that was not the first time that I wanted to be interacting with him extensively. So, I spent the three and a half hours that this party went on, hiding from him. He would walk into a room and I would leave it. In the realm of dominance across the world, he was looking to say hi to me, he was hoping to chat with me. He hoped to get to know a little more about me before we went through this scene. He was well aware of what I was doing and I thought I was being completely sneaky. He noticed that whenever he walked into a room I left it. That is just how it went in that first attempted meeting.

A week later I made my way up to San Francisco and right when I got there it was exactly like we just spoke about with connection. It was something that you stop and say to yourself, “this just works.” It really di, we clicked at a deeply fundamental level. The only problem was that he was married, and I was married. I am not a cheater. I am very much a poly person, and I am very open. I have a lot of casual sex but I do not cheat, I don’t go behind anybodies back. Everything for me is on the up and up. So, all of this is to say that we had a couple of sexual exchanges together that had already been pre-approved by everyone’s partner and everything was great. For the most part, we spent fifteen years when we had what I think you can call a Platonic relationship. I was cumming a lot. I would get on a plane and fly to him, everything was rolling and I would cum my brains out. We did not talk too much. So, within all of this, life progresses, relationship statuses change, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and the time came that he was single and I did not have any room in my life to start any sort of thing and vice versa. My understanding was that he had gotten himself a girlfriend. Then, in those moments where my life was up in flux and my husband and I were trying to make our relationship go and it had been going like that for about five years. In another context in the scheme of things, his wife’s job was going to be sending her to New York, and we all moved to New York City and I can not stand New York City quite frankly. Through all the course of this it ended up that when I would fly back to the west coast to shoot, I would fly back for a whole week. Which was so different from how I had ever done things in my career up until then. When I lived in LA, I would fly to San Francisco, shoot and fly right back home to LA the same day or night. That is not really feasible when you are flying cross-country from coast to coast.

So, I would fly, shoot for the whole week, during which I would have some downtime. I literally just had dinner with Matt just to catch up because we just became such good friends. I want to say that it was literally a year and half since we had seen each other. He had switched companies, and he was not shooting anything that I was right for anymore because I was not doing hardcore. It is literally as simple as not seeing each other for two years, having dinner to catch up and the rest is history. We spoke about the girlfriend and things like having fun and what we had from the beginning was a very deep emotional connection and a very deep kink connection. It just all fit and clicked right from there. It worked in the way that just made sense inn every which way. It was that kind of connection where you look at your watch and you think that minutes have passed when the truth is you just moved in together. I am not complaining, it was really the best thing for adults to do, or, the best thing for a college educated kid to do. What can I say is that when it works, it works. It is something different with everyone. I do not know if you and Syren talked about how we got together but that is another “fast” story. I guess that you can say that when I make up my mind, I make up my mind.

Don Juan: Yes, she did tell me that amazing story of how you two met and then got together. You know, she even said that you and I would have fun getting to talk to one another. She was right. I really enjoyed getting to hear you speak of never cheating on your partner. I am a person who takes a lot of pride in having never cheated on anyone I have been with. I have not met someone who has that same trait within their character within them like you do in probably ten years. For myself, honesty is number one and I rarely see that in any corner of the world, well I should say when I used to date "civilians." I do not do that anymore and no for the reason as only people in the business would understand.

Dee Williams: Well, I think for many people, they do not know how to separate honesty and monogamy. You will never get me to be with a monogamous person. Even just in this quarantine that we are all going through right now it is killing me!

Don Juan: You are great darlin’. For me, when it comes to discussing the “vanilla people” of the world, or the “civilians” and dating them, it was always a struggle with the number of people I would date and I would say, “if you want to see other people, hey, that is cool. I get that. I understand the frailty and needs of the mind, body and soul.” I think that I was always destined to make my way into this industry for that very reason of getting meet someone you fall for, you connect with and the answer to that question of who they are is answered, I am A, B,C and D and that is me, that is who I am and have been and always will be. To me, there is nothing better than that in life. I can so relate to all these tales and stories because those are the things I cherish. I think more people would too if they knew such things existed. I appreciate you sharing this story with me and the readers.

Dee Williams: Oh, it is my pleasure. I like to say that I went and sampled all the best riggers in the whole wide universe, and then I married the best one.

Don Juan: I can only imagine those stories. Thank you for sharing once again as I had to find out about these such wonders of romance with the depth of character that you have darlin’. I can only imagine how deep and massive the friendship is between the both of you. How deep the want and interaction with the other person is, because that is such an important part of a relationship.

Dee Williams: The mistakable part. It does not matter how much your brain wants that connection to be there, if they do not stir your loins, they do not stir your loins and I think that a lot of people would like to intellectualize things that do not actually work. I understand that temptation but you can't out think your gonads, you just can’t.

Don Juan: Yes, I one hundred percent agree and I think the other thing that you can not fake is that aspect we talked about earlier, which is the weirdness. The love of my life who I have spoken about so boldly and romantically, our first moment of finding out how much we cared for one another, she sat me down and said, “you are one of the first people I feel comfortable telling you that I believed in fairies up until four years ago. We are both massive Lord of the Rings fans and how that came out, I had told her that I literally would not not just play with my toys as a kid, I made long stories with so much depth because I could not play with other kids as they would not understand were the story began and ended. It was our weird little ways that made us bond and feel at peace. You can not fake that kind of joy.

Dee Williams: If you can not be weird around your life partner, then you can not be weird at all and that is a sad life to live.

Don Juan: I think that both you and Matt are these pinnacles of evolution within the hearts and minds of so many people because you both created so much for the rest of us to say, “wow, that actually looks kind of cool. I had thought that I was a little strange before I saw this spanking video, or rope session on film.” You both are a voice for the people. You still are.

Dee Williams: Yes, …

Don Juan: I think people do not know how powerful a thing it is in life to have someone who you can just be honest and tell them, “I want to be spanked, I want to be tied up.” With a feeling of safety not shame.

Dee Williams: Yes, we typically go to the more “fetishy” side of conventions. It is very common to have people come up to us and say that, “y’all were the first people that I saw being who you are, being humans and yet, are into the crazy shit.” It is very common after that to have them express how refreshing that was to them. I had never seen that out there and I feel like that is me. It is weird and traumatic particularly when the things that you feel are lesser things in the BDSM world. Things that bring up questions of consent. Even when things are done in a consensual context. Nothing has ever happened to me on set that I did not want to have happen but I have been in this lucky, lucky place, where I have been able to say, “hey, this is something that I have always fantasized about and if it were ever to come to fruition in a safe way, now would be the time. It is a little intense, nobody is hurting me, I am in this willingly, but I am going to whine, and na-na-na-na-na and that is a part of the whole experience. Again, since then, in the last fifteen years, we have begun to include into our vocabulary and conversations as a society, to discuss consensual and non-consent. How to do these kinds of things, because a lot of people are interested in it, particularly a lot of women. Guys I think have no idea how many women were into the idea of not “forced sex” but the sexual act where I do not want to sit there the entire time and say, “it is OK baby, It is OK baby.” You need to just keep on going, all right?

Don Juan: A truth beyond words!

(Now, another way that I can explain what Dee is telling us and for those who were like me and just did not get it before they learned of fetish. The conversation is not about how “bad” things are, can be, or anything close to something crude, vulgar and inappropriate even when talking about sex. BDSM has long-faced a stigma due to how often people go into it, observe it without the correct attitude or mind set. Dee explains the meeting of the mind and heart in ways that some people never discover because they can not let go of this term called, “what we think we know.” To me, women in general are not given enough credit or allowed to indulge in this type of play and lifestyle due to what the stereotype of women in genearl and what the discussion with proper insight does.)

Dee Williams: That is a very hard conversation to have. Especially many years ago. I think that it is a very weird conversation to have, that goes somewhat like this; “I know that you love me a lot, but can you do some totally unspeakable things to me?” To a lot of brains in the world that is a very hard ask. One of the most difficult things that you could ask anyone. But, then again. If you have that connection, man is it fun.

Don Juan: Now we walk once again into the next philosophical question, which is; what I would love to know and I think many readers would like to as well, what does the word sexuality mean to Dee Williams?

Dee Williams: Oh, that is a hard one! Let me think here for a second. Let me gather some thoughts about this one. That is such a tricky question.

Don Juan: I really look to stump and pause the great minds of the industry with this one. Send your mind in a dozen different directions.

Dee Williams: Well, if anything, I know a lot of women hear that question and say, I blossomed within my sexuality within my forties. Really, from about my mid-thirties on, my umbrella of sexual experiences that I got to have and the things that I got to pursue, it just has blossomed. Barnone, all the things and in this day and age, 2020 is a playground for me in a way that I never would have anticipated having. Now, as far as sexuality, I hate to defer back to the “you will know it when you see it” kind of answer but for me, sexuality is a lot tied up into the energy that I have inside, and a lot of the aspects of it are drawn to somebody else’s energy that they have inside and sometimes that ends up being gender play. Often I feel for myself, that I end up returning to that point where I am teaching them something, I love educating people, I love giving them experience. It is not like trying to educate them in the classroom but a lot of what is appealing to me with sexuality these days is being able to give somebody that good ride. Being able to blow their mind a little bit. Ideally, being able to show and give them things they did not even know that they wanted to experience. Being able to broaden their world, even in just that small way, and that has been a growth, a shift of mindset within the last four to five years for me because I was before that, strictly, strictly, not just submissive but I liked being the canvas in sex, I liked being the recipient or the reactor and that was my role throughout my twenties and thirties. That was the role that I sought out, that was the role I always saw myself in, which is not a bad thing. It is a very socially acceptable thing for women to be. But, in the last five or six years, as that has blossomed, I have both become pickier about whom I let paint on this canvas and I have become much more interested in being the painter. Which is something that has worked out perfectly well because some of these companies are giving me almost carblaunch to be that person who says, “what do you want to do?” They pretty much put it like this, “here is your set-up, now go Dee, go!”

The other thing that I was going to say was that I feel that I got into “mainstream” porn at the right time in my life and the right time in Matt’s life. I am never going to be a polished performer. I am not very good at acting when it comes to liking sex that I do not like and conversely, I am not good at acting when trying to show that I am on top of sex that is not blowing my mind. Every good scene that has me in it, there are at least a few moments where I looked utterly ridiculous and that is part of the beauty of sex to me. It is beautiful in a way that fifteen years ago, twenty years ago, girls would be strippers and perform that way, then become porn stars, and they would perform that way. That was not my path to this industry. I did not start this out as a performer. I started out on the bondage side of things where you do not even have to be pretty. Not only do you not have to be a nine or a ten because what people want to see is the true process of the experience on your face. Sometimes those experiences are unpleasant and part of the process is wanting to put ourselves through unpleasant things, because the experience is what is important and having bad experiences, having intense, not necessarily positive experiences that are traumatic they are actually a very essential part of people discovering who they are. “No, whip me!” I do not want to be whipped if you are no good at it and to discover that part within you comes only through those experiences. I want to be whipped also because I want that feeling. It reminds me of being a kid and that mindset you get when you smell gasoline. “Do I like the smell of gasoline, or do I hate it? No…” and yet, bringing that over from the bondage side of things it is more important to really drink up the dregs of the sex that I am having. I want to get into the sex that I am having and I want my partner to be into the sex that we are having more than put on a performance particularly for the male gaze. When I am banging a girl, I am not thinking about dudes at all and I get that mostly lesbian porno is watched by guys, I get that. But I am not really thinking about y’all when I am banging a girl.

Don Juan: My goodness, I love it darlin’. This is some of the most wonderful knowledge I have ever stumbled upon in an interview and I know people are just going to be as enthralled as I am. Well darlin’ I think we have come to the end and in the end, I must ask this question and it is a long one….

(So, when I interviewed Dee’s girlfriend Syren De Mer we got to talking turkey so long that we grew a friendship out of our talk of love for “the life.” That is what this business is. We also spoke for so long the batteries in my cordless phone died right at the same point with Syren as they did with Dee. As Dee and I wrapped up this interview and spoke about how similar souls just always make the day better and then bam the phone dies once again. My cordless phones are my most reliable and I had to run up three flights of stairs to get the second phone off the charger as not to keep my guest and a lady waiting. I get Dee back on the phone, and I am out of breath like I just ran a marathon and Dee, understanding as ever, tells me something that to me defines this industry. It was the truest magic in life that such a thing happened when it did. It is the magic of this industry and metting the good people within it.)

...holy shit women, that was a sprint. Thank you for calling me back. These damn phones.

Dee Williams: Well this has simply been a lovely morning, a lovely interview, thank you so much.

Don Juan: (Out of breath but still trying to be cool, calm and suave like his alter ego broadcasts and is failing miserably by huffing and puffing like I just ran a marathon.) Oh, thank you, Dee, I do not think I need any morning cardio after this.

Dee Williams: Oh my goodness, you are all right. I know how it is. We get these phones that do everything, they have the world at your fingertips and it still comes down to batteries. This is also why we decided to go with the house that we have. No stairs for us please, thank you very much.

(You have no idea the charm of this woman and how she makes her reply last a little longer as I am truly huffing and puffing like a fool. The understanding from a super star of the business that is a true blue icon of the industry. Dee was right, they don’t make em like they do her wired from the factory.)

Don Juan: No, I really mean this it was such a joy getting to finally speak with you too. The same thing happened with Syren.

Dee Williams: (Chuckling.) Oh no, I can see you now, “gotta go, gotta go!” Oh, that is the dangers of cordless batteries I guess. I knew, well, let me just say this, anyone that Syren likes, I like. That is the goodness that comes with having a soul partner. If they are good to you, they are good to me. You were just absolutely lovely, you had some damn good questions.

Don Juan: Well, this last question, it is not really as lengthy as it may seem and I can not wait to present this. So, bare with me, I get even more long-winded with questions like this. You love cars, spankings and being put over someone’s knee. God bless you woman, you love to cook almost as much as you love being bound, you know what a “top” and a “bottom” is. You and I both wish that orgies were easier to plan in our personal lives as well as finding that perfect person to introduce into an open relationship. You are a science nerd who plays Dungeons and Dragons, and I am not talking about twenty years ago, I am talking about last week. I can imagine what you think about Andre Reed but I know what you think about Scott Norwood. You love Nina and Ernest probably as much as I do, you and your beautiful girlfriend love to “do nothing together.” So here is my last question. Tell Don Juan DeMarko something he does not know about the great Dee Williams?

Dee Williams: Oh, OK. One thing that you probably do not know about me, I have had all kinds of animals over the years but my absolute favorite, Barnone, were my ferrets. I think that they are just the world's best pet.

...an animal nut on top of everything else. You could not go to a drawing board and engineer a better human being that Dee Williams. In closing we spoke of how I referred to her as "Darlin’" which was her stage name when she got into this industry. I confess as we close this interview that I began to call women, “darlin’' after I had seen her work many years ago. Before the age of the internet I saw her talking with her co-stars, and she was the woman who seemed so at ease, so nerdy but then put on a show that made you re-think life not to mention what you like about sex. That is Dee and I bring up this point as what this amazing woman does every day and you see it in films like Women Seeking Women 172 which is a film we chose to showcase within this interview and all the pretty pictures. Clicking them will link to all her scenes by the way. It is there that you will see a woman with a woman, having sex, having fun, doing what it is she loves to do. That may be a cliché to some but the truth of Dee Williams is that this is a way of life, as it is for me. Dee is a person who I think best represents us souls who were born “turned on” and I mean that in so many ways. She speaks of discovery, loss, pain and more. These are all things that sex involves, just like any other part of live and living. Dee’s insight in this interview shows us a broader picture of sex and that to be honest, we should be embracing it at levels bar beyond what we are now but alas, what else this interview speaks of, Dee is showing that we are making progress, we are creating a bold, beautiful new world. She and her work are proof of that, as is how I refer to every amazing women I meet with that affectionate greeting of darlin'.