Nina Hartley Talks All Things Non-Monogamy In Support Of ‘Marriage 2.0’

Throughout her career, Nina Hartley has done just about everything one can do in the industry, so it's always surprising to find her doing something new. Her latest project finds her appearing in a new film titled Marriage 2.0, which is a new bridge between the independent filmmaking world and the adult entertainment industry. Writer and creator Magnus Sullivan and first-time feature director Paul Deeb have sought to create something totally unique within the adult world: A film that values the dialogue and open discussions about the modern state of marriage in the age of polyamory, non-monogamy, and the fluidity between these various things as it relates to a committed relationship. Heady stuff, but even more so because it appears in a film with adult superstars like India Summer, Ryan Driller, and of course Ms. Hartley, that still features all the hot action one would expect from performers of this caliber.  

I recently got the chance to chat with Nina about her involvement with the film, her experience working on it, and how the film's themes mesh with her own views of non-monogamy.  

Tucker Bankshot: How did you get involved in Marriage 2.0?

Nina Hartley: Well, I'm always interested in being a part of a movie, especially when it's a feature because I don't get to do those much anymore. I'm usually called in to do a scene and to be a part of a bigger project that has multiple shooting days, multiple story arcs, and it was really just a throwback to the old days and I just really appreciated the offer. I had a great time.

TB: This is director Paul Deeb’s first feature length film, though he is obviously a very accomplished visual artist. How was your experience working with someone so new to the game behind the camera?

NH: Actually I really liked it, and for the following reasons. Porn as a commodity, as a thing, has become very much like a conveyer belt; You go in, you discuss your positions, you shoot the sex stills, you run through the sex, and once the sex starts shooting these days, you're usually done in 40 minutes, if it's straight hardcore and they don't have to worry about hiding anything. Now, there's nothing necessarily wrong with that, but after a while, if that's the only porn you shoot, it's god awful dull. 

So with Paul, he knew what he wanted, and we would do multiple takes of dialogue—WHAT?—and he would give director's notes on my acting—WHAT?—(both laugh)—and he cared about the characterization. He cared as much about the characterization as he did about the sex which is definitely not the way things are done these days, which is very refreshing. He was calm, he didn't yell, he kept a very calm, nice set, it really couldn't have been a nice experience. 

TB: Was it strange being cast as India Summer’s mom considering you’re both well known MILF performers?

NH: Oh, no. Back in the 80s I was cast to play Don Fernando's mother and he's a few years older than me, and with India, how old is she 40?

TB: Yes (ed. she'll turn 40 in April)

NH: Okay, so if I had been a sixteen year old mom, I could have had her. But that's fine, you know? It's play acting, we don't really have any sixty year old women in the business anymore, so someone old enough to be her actual mother isn't available. So, it doesn't bother me (laughs).

TB: Can you talk a bit about how the film meshes with your own views on non-monogamous relationships? 

NH: I have to say, it did quite well. The writer really cared about the topic, and I don't know if he himself is a non-monogamous person, but it's so rare for an adult film to have deeper themes beyond big boobs, blonde hair, you know? So it's a movie that has a story to tell and a point of view, and very positively, it was an adult story about an adult topic taking place with adults. So I love the fact that a lot of the things that I do believe about relationships and believe about monogamy or non-monogamy were expressed in the movie, so it's rare that the message of a movie meshes so well with my own philosophical underpinnings and personal experience. 

TB: What do you think are some of the biggest pitfalls for people seeking to move into non-monogamy?

NH: Oh wow, where do I start? The first problem is if the couple in question is already having trouble and they are coming at this from a position of fear of losing their relationship or if I don't do something about this I'm gonna lose my husband or my wife. If you come at it from a fear-based starting point, it's gonna be more rocky. The most difficult thing is recognizing in ourselves that our sexuality isn't actually what the culture says it's supposed to be and what are we gonna do about that? And by that time, they may already be in a marriage that is monogamous or be with a partner who is monogamous themselves and expect monogamy up until you realize that something may not be right here. You may even have been behaving monogamously and thinking, okay, I'm just not appreciating my partner or I'm just too shallow or something's wrong with me.

So is our desire for non-monogamy is an expression of our sexual nature, or is it a childish, impetulant reaction to something we're unhappy about in our marriage? So by saying, my partner's so "fill-in-the-blank" that I'm going to have something on the side, that is of course an unhealthy way to go about it, and it may not be the truth. When I was living a more monogamous life, I would always end up being a cheater because I am incapable of living a monogamous life because I am not a monogamous person. When I was behaving monogamously I resented it, I felt stifled, I felt unhappy, I felt unsatisfied, and I felt depression, what's wrong with me, why can't I be happy with this person, he's a perfectly nice person. I wasn't a failed monogamist, I was an unhappy non-monogamous person attempting to fit a square peg into a round hole. 

So first, make no decisions in crisis. As an individual, try to discern if you're reacting to your marriage or if you really experiencing and recognizing a side to your nature that has heretofore been very denied, chained, out of existence. Then you can get therapy so you can learn how to talk about yourself, you know, people want to rush out and do something right away, that's not gonna help. The only way we can healthfully address our situation is to work through our own issues of anger, denial, bargaining, grief, etc. and come to a true realization of what's really going on here. Then you take that to your partner and say, okay we have to talk. Because if I go to you upset with this bombshell of I want to completely redo the boundaries of our relationship that you thought was fine, it's gonna be a little bumpy, okay? (Both laugh)

So the most difficult thing to do, and the most loving, and the most adult, and the most secure thing to do is to be able to ask lovingly within chaos; To be able to ask lovingly within a discussion, and recognizing that my feelings are one thing, but my behavior is under my control, so I'm going to behave kindly to my partner. I just dropped a bombshell on them, they're going to have a reaction. They're gonna be, probably, upset. It may mean the end of the relationship or it may mean a period of adjustment, which may move you closer to breaking up because a monogamous person and a non-monogamous person can't be married. They can be friends, but they can't be partners.

Some couples come to the "don't ask, don't tell," some couples come to the "Do anything you want sexually, I don't wanna hear about it, be safe," and other couples say, "As long as you're out of the state." So you have to be ready for any of these scenarios, including, I don't want to be married anymore, I'm going to go find a monogamous person, or I need to go find a non-monogamous person and start anew. So the biggest hurdle is acknowledging and accepting this part of ourselves that we've been told is wrong, the second most difficult thing is finding a kind way to impart some really scary and painful information, the third most difficult thing is finding a way after the crying and the throwing of the dishes, what are we gonna do now?  

TB: What kind of conversations are you hoping that people will have after watching this with a significant other or potential significant other?

NH: The most important discussion that I hope that people will have is that they want to learn more and talk more. Between the mutually agreed idea that we'd like to investigate this more and doing anything actually non-monogamous should be a year or more of discussion, reading books, going to workshops, do some online chatting with people. There's so much to know about this and then how do we make it work for us, because every couple does its own thing. Every non-monogamous couple handles non-monogamy differently. So, let kindness towards self and kindness towards others lead the discussion. If you're not able to talk about this without attacking or without being defensive, you're not ready for this. You're just not.

So how do we say difficult things, how do we share difficult things, and not retreat or attack? You need to be kind to each other, and that's the biggest thing when this comes up people have such a difficult time maintaining good love relationships with each other. They just all of a sudden think, if I love you I get to shit all over you; If I love you I get to puke all over you, and that is not loving. That's child behavior, we're talking about adult behavior, and adults act like adults, they understand what they're doing, they take responsibility for their actions, they don't blame the other person for what they do. They are able to recognize, I'm having a difficult time with this and I need to take a time out and come back to this later because I can't talk about this right now. And being able to recognize that and say that, that's why I recommend therapy for learning how to discuss these things. 

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