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New York, 5:54 AM
Wed Dec 23
20 posts in the last 24 hours
What's the deal with "objectification" anyway? What does that even mean? You have an ad with a pretty woman or handsome man, someone driving a car skillfully, someone climbing a vertical cliff, someone fixing a car, someone running fast ... they all focus on a subset of that person's overall properties. But somehow the only bad one is a woman whose sexuality/beauty is in focus. I think it's bullshit. #advertising
@mrburglar: I don't ever really see scantily clad/naked men to sell things, restaurants with men in little clothing to serve food, or much objectifying of men at all. I think it's not something men have to deal with, so don't empathize with women who feel objectified. The naked men on this site are tagged as "gay". There is not much out there for the "female gaze", so to speak, but there should be. #advertising
@codliverearl: To clarify my post: "objectify", if it means anything at all, means "treat/view X like an object", or at least "treat/view complex X just in terms of one of X's properties". See my many examples. It does NOT mean "display X naked, which in the case of women is a nasty thing to do", or "demean women by presenting them as sexually desirable", etc. As I pointed out, the only type of "objectification" that feminists find objectionable is picturing or describing women as physically sexual/sensuous. No one objects to describing someone as strong, or brave, or a good driver, or having excellent hearing, or whatever.
Some people think it's mean/nasty/unfair/impolite to think of women sexually. Okay. I don't hold that view, but some people do. But "objectify" is a bizarre term to choose, and it is chosen and being used to try to lend a kind of pseudo-legitimacy to what is just one group of people's beliefs about women and how those poor darlings are hurt by mean men (and other women, and "the media", and "society", and whatever other abstract groups are targeted). As I said, I call bullshit. #advertising
@mrburglar: methinks you need to ask a feminist or two about that. it seems like the old "blame the feminists for sex negativity" bullshit that gets played out over and over again. i am for equal opportunity nudity/"objectification". this would solve the problem once and for all. or would men get all indignant about it? #advertising
as a portlander who works in old town around the corner from voodoo, and knows the staff. i have to say, that all of the ladies that work their are feminists. voodoo is a fun, rad, awesome, liberal, radical place..come on bitch, i love your mag, but some of us can take a joke. besides, home girl has some bush, and that's a pro lady lady..
I think it's the "hole" (vagina) = "hole" (donut) reference which may make some people uncomfortable. Although, this ad doesn't bother me.
I wonder if the tables were turned, would it be acceptable, like instead of having genitalia referencing donuts, have donuts referencing genitalia. i.e. If it were a picture of some deep-fried treats that look like our favorite male & female sexy bits for instance.
Me personally, I haven't thought about it, because yummy donuts usually end up in my belly way before I think of how sexy they look. #advertising
@piggythewonderdog: I'm not sure if you were hinting at it already, but Voodoo Doughnut does sell a doughnut called "cock and balls." I suppose as a man I should complain about objectification or something, but I am sure someone will twist it around to say something about sexualizing (and therefore objectifying) women - it's suggested for bachlorette parties, after all! (P.S. the website says it comes in a pink box...)
In all seriousness, I don't feel that this should be taken as offensive. I think that it does more damage than good to a movement like feminism (which I wholeheartedly support) when humor is treated the same as truly offensive material that was meant to offend. I highly doubt anyone who laughed at this or would have bought it did so because they objectified women or that their worldview was altered.
Note also that the Voodoo Doughnut website sells "The Magic Is In The Hole" shirts for both women and men. #advertising
just because a company uses sex(ism) to sell their product, doesn't automatically make it sex positive. the ad makes me squirm in a bad way. i'd rather seek out erotic material instead of being hit over the head with this type of stuff #advertising
My guess is that the other things that are mentioned (a porn site operated by someone with a known female-positive agenda, burlesque, which also tends to be femme-positive) are different kettles of fish than an advertisement that blatantly sexualizes and objectifies a woman's body for commercial purposes, arguably the epitome of exploitation. I don't know if I agree with that rationale, but I see it as being a reasonable one on the part of the magazine editors. #advertising
@offred: I'm intrigued by the question, not because I think they were wrong (I'm neutral), but because I think it's fascinating to shed attempt to hash out what sorts of sexual media are and are not sexist--and yeah, what makes this sexist, while another, similar image might not be. Anyway, thanks for hashing it out with me. #advertising
@Lux Alptraum: If you don't mind revisiting the question, I thought about it a bit more and came up with a bit of a thought experiment. Consider this photograph versus the one that of the American Apparel model in the sheer panties that you (I think it was you) posted earlier (helpfully it's in the "more about #advertising" sidebar). Even though both are essentially using female sexuality for commercial purposes (and American Apparel seems to try to court this sort of controversy), I'd submit that each photo engenders very different thoughts.
I think what may be considered offensive about this photo is twofold. First of all, the woman is reduced to being a provider of genitalia. The other photo has a model casting one of those time-tested (or time-worn, if you're less charitable) sultry looks at the camera, but at least there is the sense that she owns the image, that she is an active component in its generation. What do we know about the woman in this photo other than she provides a pussy for entertainment purposes? I think the pubic hair is an eroticization of the photo as well beyond what it would be otherwise. The second point is that beyond using this sexuality in very direct ways, the message is also one of humor, almost in a mocking way given the bad puns in play. That's not to say that males can't be the subject of bad puns as well (to wit: those "A Hard Man is Good to Find" posters) but here the objectification is strictly one-way and that's maybe not so cool given that it's not subverting any norms, but further cementing them.
Actually, the message coveyed by the slogan becomes more disturbing when it's thought about a bit more. It's not just the "pink box" that's at issue here, but the "coming" in them. One of the other commentators sort of got on this track but I don't think identified what makes it disturbing; the way it's written and the way the photograph is portayed, with a vagina essentially on display, sends the more subtle message that it is meant primarily as a receptable for male pleasure, that's it's function and purpose is to accept "good things" coming in it. I'm willing to wager that it was that more insidious message that raised the hackles of the fine editors at Bitch Magazine (and I'd be pleased to hear what their rationale, if any is forthcoming, is).
Hopefully this post didn't make the jump into "rant you skip over" territory, and apologies for its length. I just also happen to be quite interested in the issue of female sexuality and the modern tension between empowerment and exploitation (though I guess that was probably evident from my nick, if not always my postings). Thanks again for raising the interesting questions.
i think it's the cock reference. good things come in pink boxes, pussies are pink boxes, cocks come in pussies, therefore cocks are good things. as self-proclaimed feminist bitch would call a cock a bad thing, no? #advertising
Is that a beaver under her skirt or is she just happy to see us? Nice to see another devotee of the Emma Watson school of pubic coiffure airing her opinions I must say.
Yeah, that was a cool scene. She was obviously expecting his tongue technique to be yet another thing she could bring her life coach skills to bear on, only to discover, well, he's not just a pretty dick.
Seeing a little more of Anne Heche than what was spilling out of those dresses she got squeezed into would be nice too.
@Furry Girl: Yeah, it's a rather strange definition--and hopefully one will fall by the wayside now that pubic hair seems to be making a comeback (bit by bit, at least!).
My childhood girlfriend (ages 5 to 16) was Cherie Kunker in Albany, New York. She was the first woman in a Playboy pictorial to show pubic hair. Her mother went to every newstand in town and bought every copy.
Yua Aida, possibly the greatest star of Japanese porn of all time. Amazing body, cute face, and her performances were out of this world. The last year of career wasn't great though, you could tell she was no longer enjoying herself and was just collecting a pay cheque. But the golden years, damn. Unbelievable.
10/19/09
10/24/09
11/06/09
Some people think it's mean/nasty/unfair/impolite to think of women sexually. Okay. I don't hold that view, but some people do. But "objectify" is a bizarre term to choose, and it is chosen and being used to try to lend a kind of pseudo-legitimacy to what is just one group of people's beliefs about women and how those poor darlings are hurt by mean men (and other women, and "the media", and "society", and whatever other abstract groups are targeted). As I said, I call bullshit. #advertising
11/11/09
10/17/09
10/17/09
I wonder if the tables were turned, would it be acceptable, like instead of having genitalia referencing donuts, have donuts referencing genitalia. i.e. If it were a picture of some deep-fried treats that look like our favorite male & female sexy bits for instance.
Me personally, I haven't thought about it, because yummy donuts usually end up in my belly way before I think of how sexy they look. #advertising
10/18/09
In all seriousness, I don't feel that this should be taken as offensive. I think that it does more damage than good to a movement like feminism (which I wholeheartedly support) when humor is treated the same as truly offensive material that was meant to offend. I highly doubt anyone who laughed at this or would have bought it did so because they objectified women or that their worldview was altered.
Note also that the Voodoo Doughnut website sells "The Magic Is In The Hole" shirts for both women and men. #advertising
10/18/09
10/18/09
10/17/09
10/16/09
10/16/09
10/16/09
10/17/09
I think what may be considered offensive about this photo is twofold. First of all, the woman is reduced to being a provider of genitalia. The other photo has a model casting one of those time-tested (or time-worn, if you're less charitable) sultry looks at the camera, but at least there is the sense that she owns the image, that she is an active component in its generation. What do we know about the woman in this photo other than she provides a pussy for entertainment purposes? I think the pubic hair is an eroticization of the photo as well beyond what it would be otherwise. The second point is that beyond using this sexuality in very direct ways, the message is also one of humor, almost in a mocking way given the bad puns in play. That's not to say that males can't be the subject of bad puns as well (to wit: those "A Hard Man is Good to Find" posters) but here the objectification is strictly one-way and that's maybe not so cool given that it's not subverting any norms, but further cementing them.
Actually, the message coveyed by the slogan becomes more disturbing when it's thought about a bit more. It's not just the "pink box" that's at issue here, but the "coming" in them. One of the other commentators sort of got on this track but I don't think identified what makes it disturbing; the way it's written and the way the photograph is portayed, with a vagina essentially on display, sends the more subtle message that it is meant primarily as a receptable for male pleasure, that's it's function and purpose is to accept "good things" coming in it. I'm willing to wager that it was that more insidious message that raised the hackles of the fine editors at Bitch Magazine (and I'd be pleased to hear what their rationale, if any is forthcoming, is).
Hopefully this post didn't make the jump into "rant you skip over" territory, and apologies for its length. I just also happen to be quite interested in the issue of female sexuality and the modern tension between empowerment and exploitation (though I guess that was probably evident from my nick, if not always my postings). Thanks again for raising the interesting questions.
10/16/09
It could have been much more suggestive, but isn't. I don't see what the fuss is about.
10/16/09
10/16/09
Uh, no, she wouldn't. #advertising
09/24/09
09/23/09
09/02/09
Seeing a little more of Anne Heche than what was spilling out of those dresses she got squeezed into would be nice too.
09/01/09
08/31/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/22/09
07/24/09
06/10/09
06/08/09
06/08/09
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06/04/09